Second Presidential Debate: 2020

[KRISTEN WELKER]
Good evening, everyone. Good evening. Thank you so much for being here. It is such an honor for me to moderate this debate tonight, the final debate. I want to welcome the first family and the first lady. We’re so glad and thankful that you are feeling better. I want to welcome the Biden family, Dr. Jill Biden. Thank you all for being here tonight. We are so excited. We’re looking forward to a really robust discussion. And thе only thing I would reiterate arе the CPD guidelines that when the candidates are talking, please hold any applause or any other reactions. Except of course, when they walk out, make sure you cheer and loud and applause so that everyone can hear you. Thank you for having me. This is really the honor of a lifetime. I am going to sit down and just get organized and get settled and the show will start very soon. Thank you for being here. Good evening from Belmont University in Nashville, Tennessee. I’m Kristen Welker of NBC News. And I welcome you to the final 2020 presidential debate between President Donald J. Trump and former vice president Joe Biden. Tonight’s debate is sponsored by the Commission on Presidential Debates. It is conducted under health and safety protocols designed by the Commission’s health security advisor.

The audience here in the hall has promised to remain silent. No cheers, boos, or other interruptions, except right now, as we welcome to the stage, former Vice President Joe Biden and President Donald J. Trump.

[DONALD TRUMP]
How are you doing? How are you?

[KRISTEN WELKER]
And I do want to say a very good evening to both of you. This debate will cover six major topics. At the beginning of each section, each candidate will have two minutes, uninterrupted, to answer my first question. The Debate Commission will then turn on their microphone only when it is their turn to answer. And the Commission will turn it off exactly when the two minutes have expired. After that, both microphones will remain on. But on behalf of the voters, I’m going to ask you to please speak one at a time.

The goal is for you to hear each other and for the American people to hear every word of what you both have to say. And so with that, if you’re ready, let’s start. And we will begin with the fight against the coronavirus.

President Trump, the first question is for you. The country is heading into a dangerous new phase. More than 40,000 Americans are in the hospital tonight with COVID, including record numbers here in Tennessee. And since the two of you last shared a stage, 16,000 Americans have died from COVID. So please be specific. How would you lead the country during this next stage of the coronavirus crisis? Two minutes, uninterrupted.

[DONALD TRUMP]
So as you know, 2.2 million people modeled out, were expected to die. We closed up the greatest economy in the world in order to fight this horrible disease that came from China. It’s a worldwide pandemic. It’s all over the world. You see the spikes in Europe and many other places right now. If you notice, the mortality rate is down 85%. The excess mortality rate is way down and much lower than almost any other country. And we’re fighting it and we’re fighting it hard.

There is a spike. There was a spike in Florida and it’s now gone.There was a very big spike in Texas. It’s now gone. There was a very big spike in Arizona. It’s now gone. And there was some spikes and surges and other places, they will soon be gone.

We have a vaccine that’s coming. It’s ready. It’s going to be announced within weeks. And it’s going to be delivered. We have Operation Warp Speed, which is the military is going to distribute the vaccine.

I can tell you from personal experience, I was in the hospital. I had it and I got better. And I will tell you that I had something that they gave me, a therapeutic, I guess they would call it. Some people could say it was a cure, but I was in for a short period of time. And I got better very fast or I wouldn’t be here tonight. And now they say I’m immune. Whether it’s four months or a lifetime, nobody’s been able to say that, but I’m immune.

More and more people are getting better. We have a problem that’s a worldwide problem. This is a worldwide problem, but I’ve been congratulated by the heads of many countries on what we’ve been able to do. If you take a look at what we’ve done in terms of goggles and masks and gowns and everything else, and in particular ventilators we’re now making ventilators all over the world, thousands and thousands a month distributing them all over the world.

It will go away, and as I say, we’re rounding the turn. We’re rounding the corner. It’s going away.

[KRISTEN WELKER]
Okay. Former Vice President Biden to you. How would you lead the country out of this crisis? You have two minutes uninterrupted.

[JOE BIDEN]
220,000 Americans dead. You hear nothing else I say tonight, hear this. Anyone who is responsible for not taking control, in fact, not saying I take no responsibility initially, anyone is responsible for that many deaths should not remain as president of the United States of America. We’re in a situation where there are a thousand deaths a day now. A thousand deaths a day. And there are over 70,000 new cases per day. Compared to what’s going on in Europe as the New England Medical Journal said, they’re starting from a very low rate. We’re starting from a very high rate.

The expectation is we’ll have another 200,000 Americans dead between now and the end of the year. If we just wore these masks, the president’s own advisors have told him, we can save a 100,000 lives. And we’re in a circumstance where the president thus far and still has no plan, no comprehensive plan.

What I would do is make sure we have everyone encouraged to wear a mask all the time. I would make sure we move into the direction of rapid testing, investing in rapid testing. I would make sure that we set up national standards as to how to open up schools and open up businesses so they can be safe and give them the wherewithal, the financial resources to be able to do that.

We’re in a situation now where the New England Medical Journal, one of the serious, most serious journals in the whole world, said for the first time ever that the way this president has responded to this crisis has been absolutely tragic. And so folks, I will take care of this. I will end this. I will make sure we have a plan.

[KRISTEN WELKER]
President Trump, I’d like to follow up with you and your comments. You talked about taking a therapeutic, I assume you’re referencing Regeneron. You also said a vaccine will be coming within weeks. Is that a guarantee?

[DONALD TRUMP]
No, it’s not a guarantee, but it will be by the end of the year. But I think it has a good chance. There are two companies, I think within a matter of weeks and it will be distributed very quickly.

[KRISTEN WELKER]
Can you tell us which companies?

[DONALD TRUMP]
Johnson & Johnson is doing very well. Moderna is doing very well. Pfizer is doing very well and we have numerous others. Then we also have others that we’re working on very closely with other countries, in particular Europe.

[KRISTEN WELKER]
Let me follow up with you and because this is new information. You have set a vaccine is coming soon within weeks now. Your own officials say, “It could take well into 2021 at the earliest for enough Americans to get vaccinated.” And even then they say, “The country will be wearing masks and distancing into 2022.” Is your timeline realistic?

[DONALD TRUMP]
No, I think my timeline is going to be more accurate. I don’t know that they’re counting on the military the way I do, but we have our generals lined up, one in particular that’s the head of logistics and this is a very easy distribution for him. He’s ready to go. As soon as we have the vaccine, and we expect to have a 100 million vials, as soon as we have the vaccine, he’s ready to go.

[KRISTEN WELKER]
Vice President Biden, your reaction. And just 40% of Americans say they would definitely agree to take a coronavirus vaccine if it was approved by the government. What steps would you take to give Americans confidence in a vaccine if it were approved?

[JOE BIDEN]
Make sure it’s totally transparent. Have the scientists of the world see it, know it, look at it, go through all the processes. And by the way, this is the same fellow who told you, “This is going to end by Easter” last time. This is the same fellow who told you that, “Don’t worry, we’re going to end this by the summer.” We’re about to go into a dark winter, a dark winter and he has no clear plan, and there’s no prospect that there’s going to be a vaccine available for the majority of the American people before the middle of next year.

[KRISTEN WELKER]
President Trump, your reaction. He says, you have no plan.

[DONALD TRUMP]
I don’t think we’re going to have a dark winter at all. We’re opening up our country. We’ve learned and studied and understand the disease, which we didn’t at the beginning. When I closed and banned China from coming in heavily infected and then ultimately Europe, but China was in January. Months later, he was saying I was xenophobic. I did it too soon. Now he’s saying, “Oh, I should have moved quicker,” but he didn’t move quicker. He was months behind me, many months behind me.

And frankly, he ran the H1N1 swine flu and it was a total disaster. Far less lethal, but it was a total disaster. Had that had this kind of numbers, 700,000 people would be dead right now, but it was a far less lethal disease. Look, his own person who ran that for him, who, as you know, was his chief of staff said, “It was catastrophic. It was horrible. We didn’t know what we were doing.” Now he comes up and he tells us how to do this.

Also, everything that he said about the way-every single move that he said we should make, that’s what we’ve done. We’ve done all of it. But he was way behind us.

[KRISTEN WELKER]
Vice President Biden, your response.

[JOE BIDEN]
My response is he is xenophobic, but not because he shutdown access from China, and he did it late after 40 countries had already done that. In addition to that, what he did, he made sure that we had 44 people that were in there in China trying to get to Wuhan to determine what exactly the source was. What did the president say in January? He said, ”No.” He said, “He’s being transparent. The president of China is being transparent. We owe him a debt of gratitude. We have to thank him.”

And then what happened was we started talking about using the Defense Act to make sure we go out and get whatever is needed out there to protect people. And again, I go back to this. He had nothing, he did virtually nothing. And then he gets out of the hospital and he talks about, “Oh, don’t worry. It’s all going to be over soon.” Come on. There’s not another serious scientist in the world who thinks it’s going to be over soon.

[KRISTEN WELKER]
President Trump, your reaction?

[DONALD TRUMP]
I didn’t say over soon. I say we’re learning to live with it. We have no choice. We can’t lock ourselves up in a basement like Joe does. He has the ability to lock himself up. I don’t know. He’s obviously made a lot of money someplace, but he has this thing about living in a basement. People can’t do that. By the way I as the president couldn’t do that. I’d love to put myself in the basement or in a beautiful room in the White House and go away for a year and a half until it disappears. I can’t do that.

And Kirsten, every meeting I had, every meeting I had and I’d meet a lot of families, including gold star families and military families. Every meeting I had-and I had to meet them, I had to-it would be horrible to have canceled everything. I said, “This is dangerous and you catch it.” And I caught it. I learned a lot. I learned a lot. Great doctors, great hospitals. And now I recovered. 99.9 of young people recover. 99% of people recover. We have to recover- 99% of people recover. We have to recover. We can’t close up our nation. We have to open our school and we can’t close up our nation, or you’re not going to have a nation.

[KRISTEN WELKER]
And, of course, the CDC has said young people can get sick with COVID-19 and can pass it. Vice President Biden, I want to talk broadly about strategy though.

[JOE BIDEN]
Can I respond to that?

[KRISTEN WELKER]
Thirty seconds, please. Then I have a question.

[JOE BIDEN]
Number one, he says that we’re learning to live with it. People are learning to die with it. You folks home will have an empty chair at the kitchen table this morning, that man or wife going to bed tonight and reaching over to try to touch there out of habit, where their wife or husband was, is gone. Learning to live with it. Come on. We’re dying with it, because he’s never said. See, you said, “It’s dangerous.” When’s the last time? Is it really dangerous still? Are we dangerous? You tell the people it’s dangerous now. What should they do about the danger? And you say, “I take no responsibility.”

[KRISTEN WELKER]
Let me talk about your Tuesday-

[DONALD TRUMP]
Excuse me. I take full responsibility. It’s not my fault that it came here. It’s China’s fault. And you know what? It’s not Joe’s fault that it came here either. It’s China’s fault. They kept it from going into the rest of China for the most part, but they didn’t keep it from coming out to the world, including Europe and ourselves.

[KRISTEN WELKER]
Vice President Biden.

[JOE BIDEN]
The fact is that when we knew it was coming, when it hit, what happened? What did the President say? He said, “Don’t worry. It’s going to go away. It’ll be gone by Easter. Don’t worry. Warm weather. Don’t worry. Maybe inject bleach.” He said he was kidding when he said that, but a lot of people thought it was serious. A whole range of things the President has said, even today, he thinks we are in control. We’re about to lose 200,000 more people.

[KRISTEN WELKER]
President Trump.

[DONALD TRUMP]
Look, perhaps just to finish this, I was kidding on that, but just to finish this, when I closed, he said I shouldn’t have closed. And that went on for months. Nancy Pelosi said the same thing. She was dancing on the streets in Chinatown, in San Francisco. But when I closed, he said, “This is a terrible thing, you xenophobic.” I think he called me racist even, because I was closing it to China. Now he says I should have closed it earlier. Joe, it doesn’t-

[JOE BIDEN]
I didn’t say either of those things.

[DONALD TRUMP]
You certainly did. You certainly did.

[JOE BIDEN]
I talked about his xenophobia in a different context. It wasn’t about closing the border to Chinese coming to the United States.

[KRISTEN WELKER]
All right, I want to talk about both of your different strategies to handling this-

[DONALD TRUMP]
He thought I shouldn’t have closed the border, that’s obvious.

[KRISTEN WELKER]
Do you want to respond to that quickly, Vice President Biden?

[JOE BIDEN]
No.

[KRISTEN WELKER]
Okay. Let’s talk about your different strategies toward dealing with this. Mr. Vice President, you suggested you would support new shutdowns if scientists recommended it. What do you say to Americans who are fearful that the cost of shutdowns, the impact on the economy, the higher rates of hunger, depression, domestic, and substance abuse outweighs the risk of exposure to the virus?

[JOE BIDEN]
What I would say is, I’m going to shut down the virus, not the country. It’s his ineptitude that caused the country to have to shut down in large part, why businesses have gone under, why schools are closed, why so many people have lost their living, and why they’re concerned. Those other concerns are real. That’s why he should have been, instead of in a sand trap at his golf course, he should have been negotiating with Nancy Pelosi and the rest of the Democrats and Republicans about what to do about the acts they were passing for billions of dollars to make sure people had the capacity.

[KRISTEN WELKER]
But you haven’t ruled out more shut downs?

[JOE BIDEN]
Oh, well, no. I’m not shutting down today, but there are-Look, you need standards. The standard is, if you have a reproduction rate in a community that’s above a certain level, everybody says, “Slow up. More social distancing. Do not open bars and do not open gymnasiums. Do not open until you get this under control, under more control.” But when you do open, give the people the capacity to be able to open and have the capacity to do it safely. For example, schools, schools, they need a lot of money to be open. They need to deal with ventilation systems. They need to deal with smaller classes, more teachers, more pods, and he’s refused to support that money, or at least up to now.

[KRISTEN WELKER]
Let’s talk about schools, President Trump-

[DONALD TRUMP]
I think we have to respond, if I might.

[KRISTEN WELKER]
Please. And then I have a follow-up.

[DONALD TRUMP]
Thank you, and I appreciate that. Look, all he does is talk about shut downs. But forget about him. His Democrat Governors, Cuomo in New York, you look at what’s going on in California, you look at Pennsylvania, North Carolina, Democrats, Democrats all, they’re shut down so tight and they’re dying. They’re dying. And he supports all these people. All he talks about is shut downs. No, we’re not going to shut down and we have to open our schools. And it’s like, as an example, I have a young son, he also tested positive. By the time I spoke to the doctor the second time, he was fine. It just went away. Young people, I guess, it’s their immune system.

[KRISTEN WELKER]
Let me follow up with you, President Trump. You’ve demanded schools open in person and insist they can do it safely. But just yesterday, Boston became the latest city to move its public school system entirely online after a coronavirus spike. What is your message to parents who worry that sending their children to school will endanger not only their kids but also their teachers and families?

[DONALD TRUMP]
I want to open the schools. The transmittal rate to the teachers is very small, but I want to open the schools. We have to open our country. We’re not going to have a country. You can’t do this. We can’t keep this country closed. This is a massive country with a massive economy. People are losing their jobs. They’re committing suicide. There’s depression, alcohol, drugs at a level that nobody’s ever seen before. There’s abuse, tremendous abuse. We have to open our country. You know, I’ve said it often, the cure cannot be worse than the problem itself, and that’s what’s happening. And he wants to close down. He’ll close down the country if one person in our massive bureaucracy says we should close it down.

[KRISTEN WELKER]
Vice President Biden, your response.

[JOE BIEDN]
Simply not true. We ought to be able to walk and chew gum at the same time. We ought to be able to safely open, but they need resources to open. You need to be able to, for example, if you’re going to open a business, have social distancing within the business. You need to have, if you have a restaurant, you need to have plexiglass dividers so people cannot infect one another. You need to be in a position where you can take testing rapidly and know whether the person is in fact infected. You need to be able to trace. You need to be able to provide all the resources that are needed to do this. And that is not inconsistent with saying that we’re going to make sure that we’re going to open safely. And by the way, all you teachers out there, not that many of you are going to die, so don’t worry about it. So don’t worry about it. Come on.

[KRISTEN WELKER]
President Trump, let me follow up with you quickly.

[DONALD TRUMP]
By the way, I will say this: if you go and look at what’s happened to New York, it’s a ghost town. It’s a ghost town. And when you talk about plexiglass, these are restaurants that had dying. These are businesses with no money. Putting up plexiglass is unbelievably expensive, and it’s not the answer. I mean, you’re going to sit there in a cubicle wrapped around with plastic. These are businesses that are dying, Joe. You can’t do that to people. You just can’t. Take a look at New York and what’s happened to my wonderful city. For so many years, I loved it. It was vibrant. It’s dying. Everyone’s leaving New York.

[KRISTEN WELKER]
Vice President Biden.

[JOE BIDEN]
Take a look at what New York has done in terms of turning the curve down, in terms of the number of people dying. And I don’t look at this in terms of the way he does, blue states and red states. They’re all the United States. And look at the states that are having such a spike in the coronavirus, they’re the red states, they’re the states in the Midwest, they’re the states in the upper Midwest. That’s where the spike is occurring significantly, but they’re all Americans. They’re all Americans. And what we have to do is say, wear these masks, number one. Make sure we get the help that the businesses need. That money’s already been passed to do that. It’s been out there since the beginning of the summer, and nothing’s happened.

[DONALD TRUMP]
Kristen, New York has lost more than 40,000 people, 11,000 people in nursing homes.

[KRISTEN WELKER]
President Trump, what about-

[DONALD TRUMP]
When you say spike, take a look at what’s happening in Pennsylvania where they’ve had it closed. Take a look at what’s happening with your friend in Michigan, where her husband’s the only one allowed to do anything. It’s been like a prison. Now, it was just ruled unconstitutional. Take a look at North Carolina, they’re having spikes and they’ve been closed, and they’re getting killed financially. We can’t let that happen, Joe. You can’t let that happen. We have to open up. And we understand the disease. We have to protect our seniors. We have to protect our elderly. We have to protect especially our seniors with heart problems and diabetes problems. And we will protect. We have the best testing in the world by far. That’s why we have so many cases.

[KRISTEN WELKER]
Let me follow up with you before we move on to our next section. President Trump, this week, you called Dr. Anthony Fauci, the nation’s best known infectious disease expert, quote, “a disaster.” You described him and other medical experts as, quote, “idiots.” If you’re not listening to them, who are you listening to, despite this?

[DONALD TRUMP]
I’m listening to all of them, including Anthony. I get along very well with Anthony, but he did say, “Don’t wear masks.” He did say, as you know, “This is not going to be a problem.” I think he’s a Democrat, but that’s okay. He said, “This is not going to be a problem. We are not going to have a problem at all.” When Joe says that I said, Anthony Fauci said, and others, and many others, and I’m not knocking him, nobody knew. Look, nobody knew what this thing was. Nobody knew where it was coming from, what it was. We’ve learned a lot. But Anthony said “Don’t wear masks,” now he wants to wear masks. Anthony also said, if you look back, exact words, here’s his exact words. “This is no problem. This is going to go away soon.” So he’s allowed to make mistakes. He happens to be a good person.

[KRISTEN WELKER]
Vice President Biden, your response quickly, and then we’re going to move on to the next section.

[JOE BIDEN]
My response is that think about what the President knew in January and didn’t tell the American people. He was told this was a serious virus that spread in the air, and it was much worse, much worse, than the flu. He went on record and said to one of your colleagues, recorded, that in fact he knew how dangerous it was but he didn’t want to tell us. He didn’t want to tell us because he didn’t want us to panic. He didn’t want us-Americans don’t panic. He panicked. But guess what? In the meantime, we find out in the New York Times the other day, that in fact his folks went to Wall Street and said, “This is a really dangerous thing.” And a memo out of that meeting — not from his administration, but from some of the brokers — said, “Sell short, because we’ve got to get moving. It’s a dangerous problem.”

[DONALD TRUMP]
Well, this is what I-

[KRISTEN WELKER]
I’m going to give you 30 seconds to respond and then we’re going to move on.

[DONALD TRUMP]
-this is what I. I don’t know. Somebody went through Wall Street. You’re the one that takes all the money from Wall Street. I don’t take it-

[JOE BIDEN]
I haven’t-

[DONALD TRUMP]
Joe, you have raised a lot of money, tremendous amounts of money. And every time you raise money, deals are made, Joe. I could raise so much more money. As President, and as somebody that knows most of those people, I could call the heads of Wall Street, the heads of every company in America. I would blow away every record. But I don’t want to do that because it puts me in a bad position. And then you bring up Wall Street? You shouldn’t be bringing up Wall Street, because you’re the one that takes the money from Wall Street, not me.

[JOE BIDEN]
Ma'am-

[DONALD TRUMP]
I could blow away your records like you wouldn’t believe. We don’t need money. We have plenty of money. In fact, we beat Hillary Clinton with a tiny fraction of the money that she was able to-

[KRISTEN WELKER]
All right, gentlemen, we’re going to move on.

[JOE BIDEN]
Average contribution, $43.

[KRISTEN WELKER]
Alright, we're going to move on to our next section which is national security. And I do want to start with the security of our elections. And some breaking news from overnight, just last night, top intelligence officials confirmed again that both Russia and Iran are working to influence this election. Both countries have obtained US voter registration information, these officials say. And Iran sent intimidating messages to Florida voters. This question goes to you. Mr Vice President, what would you do to put an end to this threat? You have two minutes uninteruppted.

[JOE BIDEN]
I made it clear, and I ask everyone else to take the pledge. I made it clear that any country, no matter who it is, that interferes in American elections, will pay a price. They will pay a price. And it's been overwhelmingly clear this election. I won't even get into the last one. This election, that Russia has been envolved. China has been involved to some degree. And now we learn that Iran is involved. They will pay a price if I'm elected. They're interfering with American sovereignty. That's what's going on right now. They're interfering with American soverignty. And to the best of my knowledge, I don't think the president said anything to Putin about it. I don't think he's talked with him a lot. I don't think he said a word. I don't know why he hadn't said a word to Putin about it, and I don't know what he has recently said, if anything, to the Iranians. My guess is he'd probably be more outspoken with regard to the Iranians. But the point is this, folks. We are in a situation where we have foreign countries trying to interfere in the outcome of our election. His own national security advisor told him that what is happening with his buddy - well, I won't - I shouldn't - well, I will. His buddy, Rudy Giuliani. He's being used as a Russian pawn. He's being fed information that is not true. And then, what happens? Nothing happens. And then you find out that everything that's going on here about Russia is wanting to make sure that I do not get elected the next president of the United States, because they know I know them. And they know me. I don't understand why this president is unwilling to take on Putin when he's actually paying bounties to kill American soldiers in Afgahnistan. When he's engaged in activities that are trying to destablize all of the NATO. I don't know why he doesn't do it, but it's worth asking the question "Why isn't that being done?". Any country that interferes with us will in fact pay a price because they're affecting our sovereignty.

[KRISTEN WELKER]
President Trump, same question to you.

[DONALD TRUMP]
I have to respond. Yes. Yeah.

[KRISTEN WELKER]
Let me ask the question. You're going to have two minutes to respond. For two elections in a row now there has been substaintial from foreign adversaries. What would you do in your next term to put an end to this? Two minutes uninterrupted.

[DONALD TRUMP]
Well, let me respond to the first part, as Joe answered. Joe got three and a half million dollars from Russia. And it came through Putin because he was very friendly with the former mayor of Moscow. And it was the mayor of Moscow's wife. And you got three and a half million dollars. Your family got three and a half million dollars. And some day, you're going to have to explain why did you get three and a half? I never got any money from Russia. I don't get money from Russia. Now, about your thing last night, I knew all about that. And through John, who is John Ratcliffe, who is fantastic. He and I. He said, "the one thing that's common to both of them, they both want you to lose, because there has been nobody tougher than Russia." Between the sanctions, nobody tougher than me on Russia. Between the sactions, between all of what I've done with NATO. You know I've got the NATO countries to put up an extra one hundred and thirty billion, going to four hundred and twenty billion dollars a year. That's to guard against Russia. While he was selling pillows and sheets, I sold tank busters to Ukraine. There has been nobody tougher than Russia than Donald Trump. And I'll tell you. They were so bad. They took over the submarine port. You remember that very well during your term. During you and Barack Obama, they took over a big part of what should have been Ukraine. You handed it to them. But you were getting a lot of money from Russia. They were paying you a lot of money. And they probably still are. But now, with what came out today, it's even worse. All of the emails. The emails. The horrible emails of the kind of money that you were raking in, you and your family. And Joe, you were Vice President when some of this was happening, and it should have never happened. And I think you owe an explanation to the American people. Why is it, somebody just had a news conference a little while ago who was essentially supposed to work with you and your family, but what he said was damning. And, regardless of me, I think you have to clean it up and talk to the American People. Maybe you can do it right now.

[KRISTEN WELKER]
Vice President Biden, you may respond.

[JOE BIDEN]
I'm going to be straight here, I-

[KRISTEN WELKER]
And then I do want to follow up on the election security.

[JOE BIDEN]
I have not taken a penny from any foreign source ever in my life. We learned this president paid fifty times the tax in China, has a secret bank account with China, does business in China, and in fact, as talking about me taking money, I have not taken a single penny from any country whatsoever, ever, number one. Number two, this is a president I have released all of my tax returns. Twenty two years. Go look at them. Twenty two years of my tax return. You have not released a single solitary year of your tax return. What are you hiding? Why are you unwilling? The foreign countries are paying you a lot. Russia's paying you a lot. China's paying you a lot. And your hotels and all your businesses all around the country. All around the world. And China's building a new road to a new golf course you have overseas. So what's going on here? Release your tax return or stop talking about corruption.

[KRISTEN WELKER]
President Trump, your response.

[DONALD TRUMP]
First of all, I called my accountants under audit. I'm going to release them as soon as we can. I want to do it. And it'll show how successful, how great this company is. But, much more importantly than that, people were saying seven-hundred and fifty dollars. I asked them a week ago, I said, "What did I pay?" They said, "Sir, you prepaid tens of millions of dollars - I prepaid my tax. Tens, over the last number of years, tens of millions of dollars I prepaid, because at some point they think it's an estimate. They think I might have to pay tax. So I already prepaid it, nobody told me that.

[KRISTEN WELKER]
Did your accountant call you and tell you [?]?

[DONALD TRUMP]
Nobody told you that. Excuse me. And it wasn't written whenever they write this. They keep talking about seven hundred and fifty dollars, which I think is a filing fee. But let me just tell you. I prepaid millions and millions of dollars in taxes - number one. Number two, I don't make money from China. You do. I don't make money from Ukraine. You do. I don't make money from Russia! You made three and a half million dollars, Joe! And your son gave you - they even have a statement that we have to give ten percent to the big man. You're the big man, I think. I don't know, maybe you're not. But you're the big man, I think. Your son said we have to give ten percent to the big man. Joe, what's that all about? It's terrible.

[KRISTEN WELKER]
Alright, gentlemen, I want to ask you both some questions without all of this rebell-

[JOE BIDEN]
I have to respond to that.

[KRISTEN WELKER]
I'm going to let you respond very quickly. You just said you spoke to your accountant about potentially releasing your taxes. Did he tell you when you can release them? Do you have a-

[DONALD TRUMP]
As soon as the audience finishes.

[KRISTEN WELKER]
-deadline for when you're going to release them to the American people?

[DONALD TRUMP]
I get treated worse than the Tea Party got treated. Because I have a lot of people in there. Deep down in the IRS, they treat me horribly. We made a deal. It was all settled until I decide to run for president. I get treated very badly by the IRS, very unfairly. But we had a deal well done. As soon as we're completed with the deal, I want to release it, but I have paid millions and millions of dollars. And I - it's worse than paying. I paid in advance. It's called prepaying your taxes. I paid in adv-

[KRISTEN WELKER]
I want to ask you both about questions regarding your potential foreign entanglement and questions that have been raised to give you both a chance to talk about this more broadly. Respond very quickly and then I'll get to my question.

[JOE BIDEN]
Why didn't he - he's been saying this for four years. Show us. Just show us. Stop playing around. You've been saying for four years you're going to release your taxes. Nobody knows, Mr. President. What they do know is you're not paying your taxes. Or you're paying taxes that are so low. When last time he said what he paid, he said, "I only pay that little because I'm smart. I know to game the system. Come on. Come on, folks.

[DONALD]
So.

[KRISTEN WELKER]
...president Trump and then I want to get to two questions to both of you.

[DONALD TRUMP]
I was put through a phony witchhunt for three years. It started before I even got elected. They spied in my campaign. No president should ever have to go through what I went through. Let me just say this. Muller and eighteen angry Democrats and FBI agents all over the place spent fourty-eight million dollars. They went through every thing I had, including my tax returns. And they found absolutely no collusion and nothing wrong. Fourty-eight million. I guarantee you if I spent one million on you, Joe, I could find plenty wrong. Because-

[KRISTEN WELKER]
Alright-

[DONALD TRUMP]
...the kind of things that you've done and the kind of moneys that your family has taken, I mean, your brother made money in Iraq.

[KRISTEN WELKER]
Let me-

[DONALD TRUMP]
Millions of dollars. Your other brother made a fortune. And it's all through you, Joe. And they say you get some of it. And you do live very well. You have houses all over the place. You live very well.

[KRISTEN WELKER]
Alright, gentlemen, let me just ask some questions about all of this broadly. Vice President Biden, there have been questions about the work your son has done in China and for a Ukrainian energy company when you were Vice President. In retrospect, was anything about those relationships innappropriate or unethical?

[JOE BIDEN]
Nothing was unethical. Here's what's the deal. With regard to Ukraine. We had this whole question about whether or not, because he was on the board, I later learned of Abrisma, a company. That somehow I had done something wrong. Yet every single solitary person when he was going through his impeachment, testifying under oath to work for him, said, "I did my job impeccably. I carried out US policy. Not one single solitary thing was out of line. Not a single thing, number one. Number two, the guy who got in trouble in Ukraine was this guy trying to bribe the Ukrainian government to say something negative about me, which they would not do and did not do. Because it never, ever, ever happened. My son has not made money in terms of this thing about, uh, what are you talking about? China. I have not had-, the only guy that made money from China is this guy. He's the only one. Nobody else has made money from China.

[KRISTEN WELKER]
President Trump, let m-, let me ask my question to you.

[DONALD TRUMP]
By the way-. Wait, could I just..., one, one, thing. His son didn't have a job for a long time, was sadly no longer in the military service. I won't get into that. And he didn't have a job. As soon as he became Vice President, [?], not the best loc-, not the best reputation in the world, I heard they paid him a hundred and eighty-three thousand a month. Listen to this - a hundred and eighty-three.